With CCI now just a memory on Raptors.com, I find myself going back there more and more (aside from checking the schedule). Today I stumbled on a poll they were conducting on the site:
So I chose Ukic, because I thought:
- I haven’t seen this kid play very much
- He is the new backup point guard
- He will have a big role to play this coming year into the future
- and the Olympics are a good stage to see what the kid is made of
When it showed the poll results, I must say, I was actually disappointed. I mean, we all have seen Calderon and Bosh for the last couple years play. We know what they are capable of and what they bring to the table. Sure, playing under FIBA is a bit different, but you get my point. Same guys, same game, same expectations.
Needless to say, more then two thirds of the total respondents (at the time of publishing) are more concerned with having their expectations of Bosh and Calderon met, then what one of the newest (and potentially more important) pieces from next season’s team is made of.
This got me to thinking on a lot of what has been said and commented about on RaptorsTalk.com over the last few months. People who are in the ‘know’, look at the nuts and bolts of things, examine them, analyze them, ponder them, take into account the bigger picture and make a judgment based on the sum of the parts.
The average fan doesn’t look past page 1 of the sports section, or takes what Swirsky had to say at face value to heart, and say’s things like “3rd best in the East” or “best Raptor team ever” or “50 wins is an absolute” - only to be let down when the pendulum doesn’t swing in the direction of their inflated expectations. I apologize for the rambling, I have had a lot to get off my chest this summer (aka Kobe Annoys me).
Anyways, the big picture point to all this: this is precisely the reason that MLSE is allowed to make just enough moves to field a competitive team that has no hope of post-season success, while gaining the blind devotion of fans. Let me qualify that…
…case in point - the Jermaine O’Neal trade. Making this trade, without a follow-up one to shore up the wing position is a job HALF-DONE! I’m not going to debate the merits of getting a Jermaine O’Neal on this team, that has been beaten to death. But getting a Jermain O’neal ONLY, while not addressing other needs appeases the exact same fans who would rather the same ‘ol things from Bosh and Calderon then what our new backup point guard is capable of - while the rest of us are left feeling raped, abused and Raptered.
Technorati Tags: 2008 Beijing Olympics, Chris Bosh, Chuck Swirsky, Eastern Conference, Giorgos Printezis, Jermain O’neal, Jose Calderon, Kobe Bryant, Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, Raptered Fan Syndrome, Roko Ukic
August 14th, 2008 at 4:51 am
You know…. I think the best way to explain this is by comparing it to a stalker and a boyfriend. A boyfriend wants to have some fun and enjoy his time; a stalker wants to know ALL the little things that happen in her day. Frankly, that is a little scary, wouldn’t you say???
Don’t forget, you don’t get paid for being a fan!!!
August 14th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Shane from your description of relationships all my past girlfriends have been stalkers
August 14th, 2008 at 10:26 am
put me in the stalker category then as it relates to the raptors…
August 14th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Shane,
From your perspective ….
What about a husband?
Into what category would you put him?
And, at that … What about a newlywed husband, in comparison with one who has been married and divorced multiple times before, or one who has been married to the same one, successfully/contentedly (from the perspective of both partners), for 30 years and more … having had multiple opportunities to stray but who in fact rejected them on account of his respect for, knowledge of, understanding of, and commitment to, his own wife (err, the game), and all other women, as well?
Always interesting … when some begin to provide analogies for what’s involved in being/becoming a knowledgeable basketball aficionado.
khandors last blog post..Pistons stay the course … with a new head coach
August 14th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Raps Fan,
It sounds to me as though you’d prefer to enter battle with 1 boot on either foot … rather than out-fitted properly on 1 foot but not the other, hoping to pick up some appropriate footwear at a stop along the way.
Not a bad idea, at all … IMO.
Kudos to your personal vision and level of expectation for MLSE.
khandors last blog post..Pistons stay the course … with a new head coach
August 14th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
So a back-up point guard who will play 10-12 minutes a game is more important than the starting PG and the franchise player?
Wow you need to stop over-analyzing.
Raped and abused!?
Cut back on the coffee and rethink your life.
August 14th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Guess I want to see all three. Gotta agree interest is more on Ukic because we haven’t seen him as much. Nationalities probably played a role in the poll.
While on subject - you gotta love what your seeing from Bosh(who had his way against Greece)and Calderon who’s Spanish team remains unbeaten against decent competition. From what I read Ukic has played well.
August 14th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
nigel: i would obviously rather watch bosh/calderon play, i meant this in the sense that we have no idea what we are getting in ukic, and it would be good to see what the guys does. we all know what bosh/calderon are gonna do, not so much ukic. i never said ukic is more important than those guys eithers, read a bit more carefully.
wicked witch: totally agree about bosh, i haven’t seen calderon play yet, but bosh is doing good things on the court. i heard the same things about ukic as well.
August 15th, 2008 at 3:23 am
I agree that seeing Ukic is the most interesting but with 13 players who would we trade to get that sf? An eleven/ten man team is playing with fire over 82 games. Over paying for a free agent isn’t a good move either. No free agent 3’s were/are worth goin’ over the luxury tax this summer.That said, I totally agree we need another piece to get to the elite level.
August 15th, 2008 at 3:48 am
Nigel… I think Raps Fan is thinking like a mastermind GM, who wants to see how his future team will look, and you are acting like a groupie, who wants to cheer for only what he is used to!!!
August 15th, 2008 at 7:44 am
strik: the only piece left is bargnani but he isn’t going anywhere because it will mean colangelo made the wrong pick.
August 15th, 2008 at 8:08 am
I think Nigel’s comments were pretty funny. Of course the casual visitor to the Raps homepage isn’t as knowledgeable or interested as some bloke that has his own blog. I’m not going to complain about how much other people choose to become fans of the Raps, they can be as much a fan as they choose.
It is an interesting suggestion though that the reason MLSE puts a mediocre product on the floor is because the average Raps fan isn’t knowledgeable and easily placated. However, MLSE also owns the Leafs (Sorry for the taboo word) and most of TO is hockey crazy and that hasn’t lead them to manage the Leafs any differently. In fact, you could probably argue that the Raps are better run than the leafs, which would kill the whole theory. I am not supporting MLSE and I hate anything that Peddie involves himself in, but I don’t think they aren’t going into the lux tax simply because fans accept that. I think they aren’t going to go into the lux tax because they are a business. To run a business one has to remove the passion from their decision making process, but passion is what you need to be a fan, thus the root of our frustration.
Can it be argued that the ideal owner is a single, uber rich person that has a passion for the game and is willing to make decisions based on that passion rather than good business sense? Perhaps, but Steinbrener and Cuban have their faults too.
As fans what we really need is for the games to begin so that we can analyse them to death rather than second guessing the management structure. I’m starting to get a little tired of armchair GM’s using hindsight to pontificate as if they would be much better than BC (yes I am looking at you Khandor).
August 15th, 2008 at 8:13 am
We should have a posting piece called:
The original: You know what really grinds my gears?
Like for today’s column: You kow what really grinds my gears - Raptors Fans…….
Why do Raptors Fans so stupid…..
And then we end with….
I’m Peter Griffen, and that’s what really grinds my gears….
Just a suggestion….
August 15th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Bonzi Wells would be a good addition to the Raptors. He’d only cost the minimum-LLE.
Provide that bench with some scoring, another post option off the wing, very good rebounding from the wing, good defense. His defense can be inconsistent but overall it’s good and can be impressive when he really puts his mind to task.
Wells provides a lot of toughness and an edge out there on the court. Bonzi is also incredibly strong for his size, a mini-ox down on the block, he can take some of the tougher defensive assignments that the Raps currently have no-one to take like a Paul Pierce.
His post game would also be a nice complement to Bargnani’s perimeter game, they could help space the floor for one another. Wells wouldn’t have much offensively when both Jermaine/Bosh on the floor because he has a poor jumpshot so defenses will actively help off of him and try to force that shot, if only one is on the floor it’s all good.
He’s declined a bit over the last two years but he’s still a quality backup who can change games in low minutes. He made a huge difference to the Hornets in the second half of the season, helping turn their bench from one of the worst in the league into a respectable unit. He also played good ball with Houston before that.
How about Bonzi? Nice boost for the bench at low money.
Daves last blog post..Lakers Sign Powell
August 15th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Robert Archibald,
Yes, an uber rich single owner is the way to go for a pro sports franchise … e.g. like Bill Davidson or Mickey Arinson or Jerry Buss or Michael Holt, not necessarily loud-mouthed meddlesome blokes named Steinbrenner or Cuban.
Men like those four mentioned (above) are in the pro sport game for purpose of having fun; TO WIN; and, then, to realize a bottom-line profit.
This is simply not the case for Peddie, Tanenbaum, the OTP Fund, etc.
=====================
In general, MLSE has done a poor job of running the Maple Leafs & the Raptors, given their access to available resources.
One is NOT better than the other.
=====================
You bet, my friend … there are more than a few people in this world who might have done a better job than Bryan Colangelo has, to this point, in terms of advancing this franchise closer to the goal of winning an NBA Title one day in the future.
I have never said that Bryan Colangelo is a poor GM for this team.
What I’ve said is that Bryan Colangelo is a solid, ‘average’ GM in the NBA … and, there are others who might/would have been able to advance this team further toward the goal of winning a League championship one day in the future.
Consecutive playoff appearances is not the only measuring stick for success.
As I look around the NBA today, I do not see the Raptors getting past the
Celtics, Lakers, Pistons, Spurs, Blazers, Rockets, Hornets, Cavaliers, Mavericks, Jazz, Magic, Bulls, Wizards, 76ers, Heat, Whatsitsnames, etc. …
anytime soon.
=====================
In general, I play to win; not just to have fun trying.
khandors last blog post..El Matador es el numero ocho
August 15th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Dave,
With O’Neal & Bosh now on the roster …
Who do you think would actually have been a better fit with the current make-up of this team:
i) Bonzi Wells
OR
ii) Carlos Delfino?
[physically, mentally, psychologically, salary-wise, skill-wise, etc.]
MLSE has made the decision to NOT sign any more players for a specific reason … and, it doesn’t have anything to do with the skills and abilities of the actual players available today in the marketplace.
khandors last blog post..El Matador es el numero ocho
August 15th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Dave,
Here’s another one.
Who’s the better player … Will Solomon or Devin Brown?
khandors last blog post..El Matador es el numero ocho
August 15th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
I would pick Bonzi over Delfino because Carlos is too inconsistent (Bonzi has his consistency problems too, but less than Carlos) but it’s very close. I want Bonzi on the court when one or both of Jermaine/Bosh are off of it, not while they’re both on the court. Delfino has more value while the above are on it because of his shooting ability.
I agree that MLSE are likely done but Bonzi would cost a lot less than Delfino at vet’s minimum-LLE where Delfino would have been up above 3mil per annum and quite likely would have required a multi-year contract. If they can get him at the minimum there’s no difference between signing Bonzi or a Hassan Adams.
I haven’t seen enough of Will Solomon to have an opinion on that. Two different players though, one is a point, other is a wing.
Daves last blog post..Coro Telling The Dragic Situation
August 15th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
According to most Raptors fans … one of the major reasons O’Neal’s arrival is seen as so fantastic is to ENSURE that one of either he OR Chris Bosh is (in fact?) on the court at all times.
Given this possiblity … as you’ve observed correctly Carlos Delfino might actually have been the better player for the Raptors to sign this year, from a functionality standpoint.
=====================
Attitudinally … there’s a BIG difference between Bonzi & Hassan (and Carlos).
=====================
Devin Brown was a PG with the Hornets 2 years ago.
khandors last blog post..Hornets say good riddance to Pargo
August 15th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Irony would be the Raptors signing Michael Finley to a Veteran’s Minimum contract for a year … validating their perceived status, in the mind of some, as a legit contenda in this League … i.e. a player of Finley’s calibre isn’t signing on with a non-contender, at this point in his career.
Reality is … when a player like Mike Finley is out there, unsigned, and doesn’t have any interest in coming to Toronto … with only 13 players on their current roster … then the rest of the League intuitively that the Raptors are not ready yet to fit into this category of team.
khandors last blog post..Hornets say good riddance to Pargo
August 15th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
sorry.
Should read as,
” … then the rest of the League knows intuitively … ”
khandors last blog post..Hornets say good riddance to Pargo
August 15th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
I said Bonzi does have value when one of Jermaine/Bosh are on the floor, just not enough value when both are on the floor at the same time.
Devin Brown played 533% more minutes as a shooting guard than as a point guard that season in New Orleans and only played the little he did at the point because the point guards were injured and they had to have someone do the job.
A Michael Finley signing would be fine. He could back up Parker/Moon/Kapono. The Raps still need that secondary backup on the wing.
August 15th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
i like bonzi over delfino for his physical presence. how many times have i seen bonzi (i still don’t know why he changed his name from bubba) get cheap/easy points in the paint, especially against the raptors. ideally, you have both, but there i go dreaming again.
this teams still needs some more toughness. o’neal helps in that department, but the wing position still lacks it.
August 16th, 2008 at 7:00 am
Khandor, I don’t know why your posts irk me so much, it is probably your know it all attitude. Getting to the playoffs is not the only sign of success, but it is one of them. As is winning Exec of the year. I agree that BC is not perfect, but this does not make him average. No GM is perfect, none. BC has been here for 2 years and has done pretty well considering.
He was in a position to raise the talent level considerably in his first year thanks mainly to the moves Embry and Babcock made, and he did raise the talent level enough to win a weak division. The following year he continued to add depth and solid mid level talent without sacrificing future financial flexibility. Although the raps didn’t live up to the elevated expectations in year two, they still made the playoffs while developing a very young core. This off season, BC has traded his mid level depth for some top tier talent. It is very difficult to acquire top tier talent without buckets of cap space or top draft picks, but BC turned an injury plagued PG that the whole league knew would be dealt into an all star C.
It is hardly his fault if MLSE won’t allow him to go over the cap, and he still has a lot of flexibility going forward with cap room over the next two years. HE has made mistakes but acted quickly to fix them, see Fred Jones (side note, in hindsight, how good would Salmons have looked in a Raps jersey, too bad God told him not to play here). Bargnani is another interesting reflection of how BC works as a GM. He decided that he was the player he wanted from that relatively weak class, it was almost unfortunate that we won the lotto that year as the belief was that Bargs could have been had at a lower draft spot. Regardless of how you feel about AB as a pick, it is too early to determine if it was a mistake to draft him #1 overall. After giving him plenty of minutes to continue to develop as a C last year, by trading for O’Neal BC has put AB in a much better position to succeed and to develop over the next couple of years. In a way, this is also a way BC is fixing his mistakes, as Bargs clearly isn’t ready to be a starting C in the league just yet.
You say there a few people in this world that would have done a better job as GM. Wow, bold statement, tosser. Who would have been better? You want to go out on a limb and include a name? I don’t know how long you have been following the Raps, but they were in total disarray before BC arrived. BC has changed the culture within the organisation, that may be his greatest accomplishment. Although Babcock had a sound long term plan, with him at the helm the Raps were still a laughingstock, and how is Minny doing now that he is back there? The Raps have turned the corner from perennial joke to solid playoff team, that is why they ARE better than the Leafs, right now one IS better than the other.
Because you can list a few teams that are still better than the Raps (and a few that aren’t better than the Raps) doesn’t reflect anything on BC in his second year. Would you rather swap GM’s with Cleveland or Washington? Winning the championship is the goal of every franchise, but not being first doesn’t mean you suck. Of the top tier teams you listed, only one won it last year and only one will win it next year, that doesn’t make every other team average.
You might play to win dude, nice rhetoric, but you are only a fan like everyone else here, and if you can’t have fun being a fan, then you aren’t very good at it.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Robert Archibald,
Unlike you, perhaps … I have no problem allowing you to speak your piece about the Raptors.
From my perspective, you are entitled to your opinion … and, what you wrote there ^^^ … is immaterial/irrelevant to what I wrote before.
Years from now … you will be someplace and recall, thinking back in time … that you were once told by someone somewhere on-line something which you, personally, thought was wrong because it was not a perspective you shared, at the time, and which you thought was accurately described as being a “know it all attitude” … except that
that same opposite opinion to yours was, in the interim, actually proved to be Correct, in contrast to your own which was actually proved to be Wrong, over the course of time.
Q1. How long have I been a NBA fan?
A1. Since the days of Oscar Robertson & Lew Alcindor.
Q2. How long have I been a Raptors fan?
A2. Since before the franchise was awarded to the City of Toronto.
Robert,
“The proof of the pudding is [always] in the eating.”
Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
khandors last blog post..Chris Bosh should be starting for Team USA
August 16th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Oh, and, btw …
Yes, indeed … I would swap GM’s with the Wizards in a heart-beat.
khandors last blog post..Chris Bosh should be starting for Team USA
August 16th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Well said Robert.
He is a Babcock guy, they just don’t get “IT”
August 16th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
The first line of my far too long post said,
“Khandor, I don’t know why your posts irk me so much, it is probably your know it all attitude.”
Your reply is that someday I will remember some guy that I thought was wrong was actually right? Then you support it by saying… cricket, cricket?
I’m not stopping you from expressing your opinions, different opinions don’t offend me; expressing them arrogantly, as if you are informing the uninformed does. Again, not so much that I would ask you to stop, debate inspires critical thinking. But you seem to talk down to optimistic raps fans as if they are uninformed, but if you are ALWAYS on the pessimistic side you just sound negative, not informed.
Did the Wizards play better without Arenas the year before they signed him to a 100 million dollar contract? Do they stand a chance against any of the other teams you listed in previous list? How long has he been there and how far has he taken that team? Why is he not an average GM?
Again, we are all Raps fans and sorry for being too agro, but I am up for some debate and if you are going to be the one to tell me how it is, you better be able to back it up.
August 17th, 2008 at 12:39 am
Anyone who thinks I’m a ‘Rob Babcock guy’ … hasn’t read or doesn’t comprehend what I’ve written … here or elsewhere.
====================================
Is this, right here …
http://khandorssportsblog.wordpress.com/2008/08/15/chris-bosh-should-be-starting-for-team-usa/
the viewpoint of someone who is “always pessimistic”?
[make sure you click on the link titled, De-constructing the mystery that is Chris Bosh]
=====================
Debate? You want to debate?
And, I better be prepared to back it up?
With what? Game Stats?
As I said before … allowing you to speak your piece is fine with me.
khandors last blog post..9.69
August 17th, 2008 at 11:34 am
as much as the starting lineup looks great for the raps with
calderon
parker
kapono (i think the moon is gonna pop of the bench)
bosh
oneil
our bench looks alot more fragile with the departure of delfino ,the guy was simply fearless. ive noticed that moon plays good when he is surounded with good players , im not sure if bargnani humphries and ukic are going to make him look better or/and play better
the solution ? ANDREA BARGNANI the guy is package of talent, alot less pressure on his shoulders now that he is not asked to be a starter but it would be a good idea if hes at least asked for be a leader off the bench and for the bench squard // he can make players like moon hump & ukic better.
August 17th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
THE BENCH
-sometimes less is more.
-come playoff time it is better to have a 8-9 man rotaiton then 10-11 guys not sure if they are playing or sitting.
-granted over the course of 82 games a deep bench is beneficial, there is no question about that.
However our bench is very intresting this year and could have some surprises. I think it is a given that the starting 4 of the 5 are all ready determined.
Oneal
Bosh
Parker
Jose
The small forward spot should go to either Kapono or Moon as much as I would like to see Kapono start for the offence threat of having Bosh, Oneal inside and 3 great out side shooters like Kapono, Jose, AP, I think Moon should start in my opinon for the simple fact that last year our premiter defence was so bad and starting Jose, AP, Jason just seems like a defence diaster on the premiter against other starting units.
I see both sides of the coin and I am sure it will play it self out and could change depending on matchups during the season.
BACK TO THE BENCH
-the back up PG postion is not to big a concern to me as it is to most fans, this is because Jose should eat up a lot of minutes he does not seem very injury prone or foul trouble prone and I think he will continue to get better and be a top PG in East and the NBA. Having Ukic and Solomon out there for 10-12 minutes a night, I am fairly confident one or both can handle the job and not cost us any games. Ukic might even be better then an average backup PG, time will tell of course but I just can’t see it being a major issue for the Raps this season. I have a strange feeling Solmon will turn a lot heads last year like Moon (not to same extent but be a pleasant surprise.
BIGS- I love our back up bigs, sure they are young and have been inconsistant throughout there first 2 or 3 years (2 for Andrea 3 for Hump) but they have both shown they can be postive factors, Hump has gotten better each year and will continue to bring energy and rebounding and Andrea will be much better this season and be a huge factor for us off the bench sort of like Jason Maxiel (diffrent styles off course but a huge impact on the game) Sure he will still have off nights, everyone will but the Andrea we saw in the second half of year one will emerge more consistantly this year. Baby shaq most likely will be wearing a suit and we probably should not expect anything for next season. Only 2 back up bigs you say surely that should be a trouble should it not? No because Moon and Joey can help at the 4 if need be and CB4 and Andrea can play a little 5 if need be. I like wathing Moon play the 4 last year, he will really be a huge a piece for us defensively again this year if we are too make some noise. As for Joey if he gets a chance to contribute this year which at some point he will have too, I think Joey could be a wildcard, his body is unquestioned, I have always thought his D was good (not great) and playing with this team this year I can see him having a role where he comes in to bring some toughness and energy for a few minutes and if he does brings it his role/minutes could expand. Call me crazy I just see Joey G having a decent year and being a postive contributer sort of in the mold of an Ariza on the Lakers, again not a huge impact or six man of the year just some good postive minutes when called upon.
Backup wings- This is where it gets a little dicey as we know, not just off the bench but starting as well. As we all know this is not the strength of the Raps. Parker will most likely start as he should and as I have all ready stated Moon/Kapon will get the other spot so the bench will have the Moon/Kapono non starter being the major wing player off the bench, either way that will be a key factor both Moon or Kapono can provide a good spark off the bench either Kapono with his offence and Moon with his defence, energy, reboubding and shot blocking. Joey G can fill in at the 3 and hopefully the light will come in. Addams can play some D and should be able to come in for a few minutes and atleast guard his postion very well. Ukic and Solomon could also see some time at the 2 as could Moon as some people here have already suggested.
BENCH OF
Kapono/Moon
Andrea
Ukic
Hump
Joey
Hot sauce
Solomn
Baby Shaq
This bench might not look as daunting as some others in the NBA however our starters will play a lot more then in the past and when we do go to the bench the youth will bring energy and be a lot more productive then most people think. I dare to say it will be on of the better benches in the East.
Come playoff time the minutes for the bench should decrease and it will be a bench most likely of
Andrea (after a solid year)
Moon/Kapono
and who ever emerges of Ukic/Solomon (like Ukic)
with Joey and Hump getting a few minutes based on matchups and foul trouble.
If you listen really really hard you might be able to hear those 2nd and 3rd round playoff tickets being printed as we speak, and shhhhhh don’t tell the rest of the fans in the NBA east conference I can here the NBA finals tickets being printed. Shhhhhhhhhhhhh don’t tell anyone it’s a surprise.
GO RAPS
August 17th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
I think the Raptors bench is an unknown. It might be good, it might be bad. We won’t figure that out until the first 20 or so games are over, and perhaps not even then.
The two pivotal factors look like Bargnani and Ukic.
The reason we might not have a good read on it at the beginning of the season is that Ukic may start slow while he acclimates himself to a new league, much like several foreigners do (Scola last season), before finding his groove in the league during the second half of the season. I know next-to-nothing about the man so I have no idea what to expect from him. Saw a bit of the Croatia game the other day, he looked confident and comfortable directing their offense which is a positive sign for my first glimpse of the guy.
If Bargnani can be a quality 6th man then the rest of bench should fall into place as solid unit. If he can’t the bench likely will be short of players who can be a game changing factor.
I think they’re the two pivotal factors for the bench next season.
Daves last blog post..Mo and Cleveland
August 18th, 2008 at 12:11 am
The fanbase can force the issue with MLSE by sowing seeds of discontent in the media. Fans begin to show distaste for a GM, coach or player en masse and eventually it reaches the ear of some talk radio show host and becomes an open point for discussion. Then somebody like Feschuk or Damian Cox gets invited to participate in a roundtable that discusses the guy, and the next thing you know there’s a controversy brewing in the Toronto papers. Consider the outpouring of hatred for John Ferguson Jr. His tenure with the Leafs would not have ended so quickly were it not for pressure from the media/fanbase.
There are, of course, limits to how much one can expect to achieve from such strategies - for example, its always easier for the fans to clamour for a firing than a hiring, and its clear that the vast majority of fans have no understanding of complex questions such as how an organization needs to be structured in the front office in order to produce a winner (otherwise the Leafs would have won a Cup a long time ago). But if they get behind simple, one-dimensional causes, fans can occasionally produce positive results. In Raptor land, we need to force a trade of Bargnani. If the media doesn’t push that move, it will only happen once whatever’s left of Il Mago’s value has disappated.
August 19th, 2008 at 9:28 am
FYI …
[an unbiased look at where the Raptors are now]
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/power-rankings.htm?csp=34
khandors last blog post..Suns sign a back-up PG
August 19th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
the list seems suspect to me khandor…
ranking miami ahead of indiana, milwaukee, denver, and the clippers is ridiculous.
raptors are ranked 7th in the east, which is on the high side of the 4-7 i think they will land, but not out of the realm of feasibility.
August 19th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
colangelo is worried about keeping bosh in ‘10 more than anything, he should add another piece , a championship piece with bosh oneil and a wing added to win a ring and thats whats gonna keep bosh from leaving for a texas western team
August 19th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Raps Fan,
You know I don’t place much stock in these types of Power Rankings before rosters are closer to being finalized but … that said … it is interesting to see where an ‘unbiased’ observer writing for a publication like USAToday has the Raptors slotted, at this point.
[whether he has Miami pegged correctly is a different matter ... cause of the situations with Marion, Mourning, D-Wade, Beasley, Spoelstra, etc.]
There are a large number of teams grouped together in the middle of the pack, in comparison to all 30 teams in the NBA, that could fall anywhere between #10-20 this season.
IMO … several of these teams are moving into ‘treadmill’ territory … whether they [or the majority of their fans] realize it [yet] or not.
Hopefully the Raptors won’t be one of them.
khandors last blog post..Degrees of American patriotism
August 19th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
i agree khandor, it is interesting to see what an unbiased observer has to say (as far as the raptors go anyways). also, it is really interesting to see that some of us are on the same page with the person who made those rankings.
i have a feeling that the separation between 4-9 will be under 9 games, which means that getting out of the gate, and winning those early games in november will be crucial for the raptors (more so for seeding purposes then to win 50 games, albeit 50 wins would probably get them a top 4 finish in the east)
August 19th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
“Unbaised” hmm is it?
Canadian teams I find are usually listed a little below there real value when ranked by a US publication. One slanted American opinion does not reflect the US today as a whole it’s just one guys opinion who lives in the US who has seen maybe a handful of Raptor games in his life (most likely less) Granted you could put a lot of teams from 2-8 in the East but my guess is you find the Raps low on most US rankings. If this exact team (the Raps) was in NY or Phily would it be ranked where it is? or maybe the JO hype would be bigger and they might be ranked a little higher. Is this possible? I think it is likely.
That’s ok low expectations from media/fans is fine with me.
I am more worried about important stuff like who is going to guard Kobe in the finals FOR US.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
lol@rbs
have to agree about the hype factor, zero coverage/hype on the raptors down south.
i’m waiting for the espn power rankings to come out, they were 2 games off on their prediction last season (39-43).
i’m wondering what the number of wins that separates the teams from 2-8 next season will be. i suspect no more then 15 from 2-8, and no more then 9 from 4-8.
August 20th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
the east is rising, as for the ranking , they simply predictions it is fun and prety much we can do because there is not basketball (nba ball)
so due to that fact here goes my predictions about eartern teams to start off…
PHILY 76iers first things first . the east is officially a war zone since the signing of iguodala by the 76iers , it turns them into a legit eastern championship team. The raps opening night against philly is just 10x more anticipated by true raps fan now.
BOSTON Cs man I dont know, teams are more prepared for them… most GM in the league are concerned “wat move do i need to make in order to beat the Celtics” … do they still have the fire from last season ? With a couple of key FA that folded their jerseys into their drawers , can they still achieve GREATNESS ? as much as they are still a legit championship team ,,, someones gonna step into their way this season and send them back home
Cleveland Caveliers They are just worried about ‘10 Freee agency more than anything , they just cant pull the right move to help L James to win his ring and are going to lose him before they know it.
They’ll give good games but wont win the east
Orlando Magics - WHAT ARE THEY WAITING FOR ? like i said previously its a war zone and they just didnt adapt their strategie… nor their weapons
Indiana Pacers - I really really realy like the moves the pacers have done this off season , they are sort of the trailblazers of the east ,,, young and talented and are on the rise
I’ll SKIPPPP the rst cuz personally i dont give a fuck about them , as long as the raps beat them its all good … INCLUDING THE PISTONS YES those old bastards need to retire