Given two deals on the table, which one would you pull the trigger on:
Scenario 1:
Send TJ to Charlotte for Gerald Wallace.
Scenario 2:
Send TJ, Rasho, Baston and a draft pick to Indiana for Jermaine O’Neal and a pick (worse then the one we sent them).
I’m not going to get into a debate on who’s the better player here, they both fill a void the Raptors have. I’m strictly looking at this from the perspective of a team, trying to fill multiple gaps with limited resources:
- salary cap
- expiring contracts
- draft picks
- balls to make a trade
- an Italian assistant GM who is better suited to tailoring custom suits
Apparently, the sticking point was Charlotte’s un-willingness to include a 2nd round pick. I mean, I understand, I know if I were BC I would be massively coveting Kyle Weaver from Washington St. The guy is a 6′2 combo guard who as DraftExpress says: “still has a long way to go and a lot of convincing to do concerning his ability to compete at the professional level.” Sound like anyone you know? So this trade was scuttled because we couldn’t get another Joey Graham to keep the bench warm for Bosh.
I wont go into how Scenario 1 solves one of our problems while only costing 1 of the assets we had (instead of 4). Also, I wont go into how Wallace is a younger player, who has a history with injuries, but isn’t as big a risk financially. Finally, I wont go into how if we kept Garbo, you could have packaged him with any of Rasho, Graham, Baston, Bargnani, pick to land a little guy from Jersey called Jefferson. You may have heard of him, he stole that lob pass from Calderon during that playoff year where everyone was hailing BC as the next coming of Jerry West.
Hindsight is 20/20, but the objectives this offseason were clear. Armed with about $22mil of expiring contracts, a malcontent pg with all the talent in the world, the 17th pick, and the mid-level, you should be able to land yourself two or three players to fill your needs. All of them, with a pretty full roster.
As it stands now, there are 9??? people under contract for next year, all we have left to attract anyone is the mid-level, joey graham, future draft picks, and the dance pack. Can’t trade Parker, can’t let Delfino walk, probably have to sign Brezec to wave towels from the end of the bench, and Kapono probably starts because O’Neal can clean up his defensive diarrhea.
My mind can’t help but to wander, bare with me here:
- Swap Ford for Wallace
- Draft Hibbert at 17
- Send Parker, Rasho and future first round pick(s) to Jersey for Richard Jefferson. If that didn’t take, then Bargnani, Rasho and a future first round pick(s) for Luke Walton’s gay lover.
- Throw the mid-level at Kurt Thomas and hope he bites.
All that pretty much costs the same as getting O’Neal and trying to get someone for the mid-level then adding league minimum players to round out the bench.
And if you missed it, this is what others would do if they were BC this summer.
Anyways, the reason this article was written…
Right now, the Raptors are an arguably better then .500 team. Not sure how much better, but a few games at the least (46 wins?). The problem is that this current roster is as about good as the Boston Celtics after they got Allen, but before they got Garnett. The wing is still suspect. There are a lot of good unrestricted free agents out there that would love the full mid-level:
- Mickael Pietrus
- Matt Barnes
- Bonzi Wells
- James Posey
- Bostjan Nachbar
- Maurice Evans
- Keyon Dooling
- Roger Mason Jr (a bit of a reach I know, but he can shoot the lights out)
I’m sure there are a ton of Euro’s the front office is jerking off over, so please, keep the momentum going and grab a couple of guys that aren’t soft, can create their own offensive opportunities, can defend, and aren’t pansies…
Technorati Tags: Andrea Bargnani, Anthony Parker, Bonzi Wells, Bostjan Nachbar, Boston Celtics, Bryan Colangelo, Carlos Delfino, Charlotte Bobcats, Gerald Wallace, James Posey, Jermaine O’Neal, Jerry West, Joey Graham, Jorge Garbajosa, Jose Calderon, Kevin Garnett, Keyone Dooling, Kyle Weaver, Luke Walton, Maceo Baston, Matt Barnes, Maurice Evans, Mickael Pietrus, Primoz Brezec, Rasho Nesterovic, Ray Allen, Richard Jefferson, Roger Mason Jr, Roy Hibbert, TJ Ford
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June 27th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
I read that article and I don’t think the deal was ever on the table, at least not as plainly as the article puts it.
I don’t think Colangelo would’ve turned that down. The only thing negative that I think Colangelo would see in that deal is that Wallace has a long contract AND that it wouldn’t allow Andrea Bargnani to play the 3 which is where I think he’s headed. The latter’s a more logical reason.
Arsenalists last blog post..Draft endorses TJ Ford trade but Colangelo too quiet
June 27th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
i don’t think playing bargnani at 3 is a realistic option. you said it the best in your article….he is being put into a situation where he can’t succeed.
i agree that bc prolly wouldn’t have walked away from it, and the deal was more then a straight swap, but it would have fixed one of the holes, and still left lots of chips to fix the other issues.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Fuck.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
I still prefer the Pacer deal,and by the way,my prediction 9on last nights live blog)that BC would “pick a Euro from a town of 200 trained from the age of 5 by his grandpa’ wasn’t far off! LOL
OK,he was an Aussie from a town of 2000,not sure if his grandpa trained him
June 27th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
lol…close enough for my taste man
June 27th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
I think the Celtics experiment of loading up on a core of stud starters led BC to make the deal.Many felt the Celtics would pay the price of little depth over the course of the season.I think BC took their lead,but to a lesser degree.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Let the race begin…. July 1st.
June 27th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Count me in the camp that’s delighted they passed on Gerald Wallace
He’s as injury prone as TJ. He can’t create his own shot with any consistency never mind create for others. Gerald is at his best when he plays power forward because he doesn’t have enough perimeter skills (jump shot, passing ability, handle) to be a star at small forward. Even though his best position is power forward it generally doesn’t help his team enough because they become grossly undersized and vulnerable in the paint canceling out many of his positive contributions. His only scoring talents are on isolation plays that involve none of his teammates or Jamario Moon like plays. Wallace is grossly overpaid and on the books for close to $50mil over the next 5 years (the length in particular is a killer) which is steep for a player that has no right to be anywhere near an all-star appearance ever.
…………..
It’s a sorry list of choices that free agent grouping isn’t it?
It’s fine for a team looking for a solid role player but it’s not fixing the Raptors main flaws. They need a player with some talent, some gravitas, some ingenuity with the ball in his hands. The Raptors only hope of addressing the crux of their problems on the perimeter is through another trade and the only trade asset (outside of Bosh/Calderon) with enough value to bring people to the table is Andrea Bargnani.
Is Colangelo willing to trade Bargnani?
What type of deals could he get?
What’s the virtue in adding Jermaine O Neal if he isn’t willing to put a contender on the floor?
How do you put a contender on the floor without trading Bargnani?
Why didn’t the Bargnani trade happen on draft night? The night were all GM’s are talking trades, willing to include high picks and decide the majority of their immediate future … in other words the best possible time to deal a 21 year old 7 footer with potential. Why is there no rumours even? Is it even being considered?
Daves last blog post..James Jones Opts Out
June 27th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Damn.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Fuck.
Arsenalists last blog post..Draft endorses TJ Ford trade but Colangelo too quiet
June 27th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
gotta say, Im with Dave here. Not only is he spot on with his analysis of Wallace (more concussions that Lindros), but he is also right about Andrea.
one other point of disagreement- with JO- and even without a “real 3″ this is as Jeff Van Gundy Said- “now the third best team in the east.”
Im not happy that CDR- who could be that 3 got drafted at #40 (one pick before the raps) but, based on BC’s willingness to make the JO trade, Im willing to wait and see what July 1st brings before I say too much more.
Me thinks there is still more to come….what exactly, Im not sure…but Im hoping it will be good enough to make Altraps and Arsenalist swear out of happiness instead of frustration.
June 27th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
you killed my buzz dave. reality is a bitch.
June 28th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Worst Case Scenario (with healthy JO)
………. The team doesn’t trade Bargnani. They have no options in the trade market and make no other significant trades. Leaving free agency as the best place to upgrade the roster before next season.
What can the Raptors do to put themselves in the best position to win?
I look at that free agent list and clearly the offensive talent isn’t there to fix the perimeter scoring/creativity problem. They’re all fairly similar to the perimeter guys the team already has. Good honest role players which can help their teams but incapable of more. This problem clearly can’t be addressed.
Jermaine and Bosh should be able to form one of the better interior defenses in the league but that won’t matter if the perimeter players can’t keep the ball in front of the defense. The next big problem is perimeter defense and that can’t be solved by one move, but 3 moves. The Raptors can’t make 3 moves so they can’t have a top perimeter defense …. So what’s the best one move they could make to upgrade the perimeter defense? Sign a stopper … An excellent one-on-one defensive player that they can throw on the opposition’s best perimeter scorer to slow that one scorer down.
I’d rate Pietrus as the best one-on-one defensive player on that list. He’s an excellent defensive player with the quickness, size, length and strength to defend any perimeter position giving the Raps perimeter defense some added versatility. The Raptors could use Pietrus on LeBron James just as easily as Chauncey Billups if they so wished.
In that scenario the Raptors would have a very good interior defense and good rebounding. Their perimeter defense would be respectable with Parker/Moon moving over to the second best offensive option with Pietrus slowing down the top perimeter player. It would make the Raptors significantly less vulnerable against players like Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, LeBron James, Gilbert Arenas, Caron Butler, Hedo Turkoglu, Rip Hamilton, Chauncey Billups …. and so on …. which would give the Raptors a shot at winning a playoff series.
I don’t think there is any possible potential addition on the free agent market that will give the Raptors a bigger bump than a defensive stopper like a Pietrus.
Daves last blog post..Vince Carter = The Leader?
June 28th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Hey phdsteve,
I saw some of your concerns with Pietrus on the last page about Jermaine O Neal.
(1) Don Nelson didn’t play Pietrus more minutes because he couldn’t make enough plays offensively on the perimeter and because his decision making wasn’t good enough. It hurt Nelson’s freelance offense. Just so you don’t read too much into this … this was also the reason he had Jason Richardson traded. With his freelance offense (lack of set plays) it was very important that his players could make reads and react very well otherwise their whole offense fell down. It was even more important for the perimeter players because they were to create the action. That’s why Nellie tried to fit in minutes for Pietrus at power forward rather on the wing because he actually loved his defense, hustle and overall energy when he got on the court.
(2) The only reason Pietrus got no bids for his services last season was because he was a restricted free agent. GM Chris Mullin got on the phone and told every team he was matching any offers. Nobody felt there was any chance Mully would let him go for an offer below the MLE which took out 85% of the teams. And Pietrus isn’t worth more than the MLE so that took out the rest. If he were unrestricted he would have been a lock for a 4-5mil per annum offer most likely from Dallas or Miami who wanted him badly. His lack of improvement could hurt that figure this summer, we’ll see.
…………..
Just to add to my previous post. Offensively Pietrus doesn’t add a whole lot but he has some skills.
In the past he complained that his teammates didn’t pass the ball enough as GSW ran that hotdogging one-on-one basketball last season rather than playing European basketball where they share the ball … not too sure what to make of that. If he’s right Toronto would be a good fit for him but it’ll probably make no difference.
Pietrus isn’t a pure shooter but he has range out to three (36% last season). He’s more of a streak shooter, he could make 7-10 jumpshots and then shoot 2-20 on his next lot of jump shots. Streaky shooter. He’s shown the ability to penetrate and get to the hoop in international basketball but hasn’t shown it consistently in the NBA. He’ll add enough penetration to provide some diversity from Parker/Kapono but it won’t make much difference because he won’t do it enough. He isn’t much of a passer or ballhandler but definitely acceptable at each (like Kapono).
You don’t hire him for his offense unless you’re looking for finishers on the fastbreak. It’ll be his defense that writes his ticket.
Daves last blog post..Vince Carter = The Leader?
June 28th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
plus he’s french, i know bc is sorta abandoning his designs on the euro raptors, but pietrus is the best of both worlds…i’d throw him a 4/$22mill and see if he flinches. that leaves about a $2mill or so to grab another guy and try to fill out the roster with d-leaguer’s and rejects.
June 28th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
I’m not sure where Pietrus’ value is around the league this summer. It’ll be interesting to see over the next two-three weeks. He might be lower than that at the 4mil per annum range. Say 16mil/4 years. I don’t know, wait and see. I don’t think GSW make any attempt to resign just like I thought they were bluffing all last summer. Whether it’s the Raptors or not I’d like to see someone free him from GSW and for a team to give him a chance playing substantial minutes at his natural position.
Daves last blog post..Draft Reports: Chicago Bulls
June 28th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
i hate to agree dave, from the limited games i saw him play, i think he can be a solid starter on the perimeter. you 4/16 sounds like it might have some traction. i hope, at the least, that he is on bryco’s board of targeted players, and they make a legitimate attempt at securing him.
again, from what i have seen, i think he can be a solid offensive player, the jumper isn’t where i would want it from a wing, but he takes it off the hop nicely. and again, from what i’ve seen (i sound like a broken record with this guy, i don’t know what it, but i have a hardon for him), he can put the ball on the floor more effectively then kapono (blow by speed from the 2/3).
June 28th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
maybe, but that all sounds like code for—-he cant shoot.
I dont care how well he can slash or defend, he has to be able to shoot at a high clip to work with this offense. Especially now that TJ is gone and JO is here, this team is going to slow it down more rather than speeding it up.
If BC is going spend cash on a wing man strictly based on defence, then I pray it goes to Posey. He’s got two rings for playing D- and gave guys like Kobe and Dirk more than they bargained for. I give him the whole mdi range if he’d come here- but I say he’ll get that from Boston, LA, or another contender.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:58 am
Pietrus can shoot enough to keep the defense honest. He’s played 310 games in the NBA, taken 900 threes and knocked down 35% of them which is a decent clip. His three point percentage has also been improving throughout his career - peaking the season before last at a very good percentage of 39% before falling to 36% last season. So that’s a good track record of being an acceptable three point shooter.
Anyone over 33% has the right to take a three every now and again. I call a good three point shooter anyone over 37% (most use 36% as the marker) and they have the right to take multiple attempts because they knock enough of them down to help you. Pietrus is as 36% which is close to being a good perimeter shooter by my reckoning.
Jamario Moon shot 33% from three so it would be difficult to pair those together for too much court time without seeing the opposition defenses taking more chances doubling down on Bosh and Jermaine. That combination would likely have to be limited. Instead Pietrus should be playing next to Parker primarily and Kapono secondarily (how much easier would this be if Kapono was Posey right now? I’m thinking a lot … and Kapono’s value has risen with Jermaine on board).
phdsteve,
I was tossing back on forth between Posey and Pietrus defensively on who was better. I’m still not sure on what that answer but I feel comfortable saying Pietrus is the better defensive option for the Raptors.
What I would answer is that I believe Pietrus to the superior stopper, the superior man-to-man perimeter defender and that he has more versatility in the number of perimeter players that he can defend well which is important for Toronto.
Posey on the other hand adds better help defense and intangibles which are very tough to measure or compare …. like excellent communication (calling screens, saying where the help defense is coming from, force him left KG is waiting is there, organizing the lines on dead balls), toughness and the willingness to knock people on their backsides every opportunity he gets which I adore. His physical play is great.
For Toronto I think Pietrus’ superior one-on-one defense is more important because the Raptors overall defense won’t be top of the line and in particular the perimeter defense will be weak. Adding a stopper I think is the best way to hide that weakness because it will slow down the opposition’s best perimeter player.
Daves last blog post..Draft Reports: Indiana Pacers
June 29th, 2008 at 2:59 am
What do you guys think of Anthony Parker’s defense?
His first season here he was spectacular defensively but last year he had quite a fall from grace. He was still a good defender but he was one of the best perimeter defenders in the league that first year. The only reason I can come up with it age and falling athleticism …. and that scares me when thinking of his future contributions defensively. On the positive side he’d likely do better with less responsibilities while playing off of a superior defender.
Jamario Moon is a wild card in all of this. If he can improve defensively and improve his jump shooting it’d be a huge coup (or in other words be James Jones - joking, only half-joking).
Daves last blog post..Draft Reports: Indiana Pacers
June 29th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Hey Dave,
lots of good points- but 36% is just not enough from 3 point range, especially when you have guys like Kapono and Calderon who shoot almost 50% from both the field and behind the arc. I agree about Moon’s shooting percentage being so low and that is why I have continually said that every time Moon hoists up a jumper from 15 feet back or more we should cut of a finger. I also think that you are right about Moon- if we can get him to just simply play good D (which he does), rebound at high rate (which he does), and crash the basket every trip down the floor (even when he doesnt have the ball)- he could be a HUGE addition to this team just by taking on a JYD, garbage man kind of role.
Im not a big fan of Posey either, but my point was simply, if we are going to add a player for their D, lets add someone with some championship pedigree since no one other than Kapono has a ring on this team (and as you point out a couple weeks back in a post- he didnt play very much that year). We dont need more of other peoples trash- even if under the right circumstances that player could really grow here.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
I think Nachbar from NJ might be the most cost effective player for the Raps to sign if they are going to go with an outside source for their new wingman- afterall he has a close connection to Gheridini and its doubtful NJ will be looking to bring him back now that they have drafted CDR.
As for Dave’s question about AP and his defence- I must agree. In year one he really appeared to be a solid shooter and a strong defensive player and I believe that is why the Raps let MoPete walk. then, all of a sudden Parker turned into MoPete- a guy who occasionally scores 20 points and then goes 3 or 4 games in a row where he shoots 1 for 6 because he just stands around waiting to jack up 3s from the corner? Even on off nights, it wouldnt be so bad if he would just “man up” on D, but for whatever reason he keeps getting blown past by opposing 2s and then there is never any help there? I dont get it? hes a great guy, hard working, dedicated, etc? But for some reason, he just stopped being the smart, savvy, efficient veteran he was in year one (like Garbajosa) and turned into a liability (like Garbajosa) in year 2. Maybe it was the $? I dont know how else to explain how a guy could be so hungry and play so well, and then just stop? Or maybe it was the strange rotation last year with Delfino, Kapono, Graham, Moon, TJ, and Jose that left him confused? But he is certainly another guy who needs to stop hoisting up 3s and start aggressively attacking the basket on offense, and then commit to being more physical and team rebounding on D. He’s another guy, like Moon, Bargnani, and Kapono, who could really help this team become a good team if he steps up and plays even halfway towards his potential. I dont see him as a starter on championship team, but I do see him as a quality back up at the 2/3 playing 25 minutes a night.
June 29th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
I feel like most of these mid-level free agents are fools gold. Do not count out Kapono as a legit 3. Especially if Delfino is gone, Smitch will have a harder time misusing him. He could show some of the skills he did in the first round series all season long. His defence would really be helped by having JO and Bosh on the court at the same time. Also, I am not scared to see Bargnani at the 3 for 8-10min a game if he is out there with JO and Hump. I think the raps really need a scoring 2, Micheal Redd (or Vince Carter if it wouldnt piss me off so much) type of bomber. I know they are hard to find, and that may have to be on the wish list for summer 2010. For now I am happy to have a playoff team that is better than the playoff team we had last year.
June 29th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
the raptors took a step back defensively last season. im sure garbo was a part of that, but it wasn’t the only reason. for some reason, smitch had the wing players on the strong side doubling the ball. which as you all know, didn’t work out at all
it wasn’t so much that parker took a step back defensively, or was a step slower, or didn’t care cause he got that contract, it was just that this ridiculous attempt at defense wasn’t working out, and he always got burned because of the type and caliber of player he was always defending.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:05 am
The only postion stopping us from being the best team in the East is the 3 especially considering other 3’s in the East that we will be competing with for the crown are, Lebron, Pierce, Prince, Lewis and or Hedo, J Smith, Butler, Deng, Jefferson, AI. So its clear Moon, Delfino and Joey G are not in that class or close to it so What to do?
I think Ron Artest is the best idea but it won’t happen for many reasons and maybe that’s a good thing, him and Oneal might have too much fun here if reunited at some after hours clubs. So Magette would be nice but I question his D against the above East forwards. So the answer is Pietrus. We don’t need him to score we need him to be Bruce Bowen against these 3’s in the East. Lets give him our midlevel let Delfino and Ukic handle backup PG and were Solid we could even start Kapono at the 2 if we got Petruis, not 100 percent necessary but an option
Imagine
PG Jose
SG Kapono/Parker
SF Bowen I mean Pietruis
PF CB4
C JO
bench
Delfino
Parker or Kapono
AB7
The hump
Joey G (could be our Tony Allen if they let him play)
Ukic
and who ever else they sign
July 1st, 2008 at 10:50 am
At first I thought blogs were suppose to give normal fans a voice about their team, but after reading articles over and over blogs are more of a way of trashing everyone is an organization about the moves they “should” have made. there is a reason why these guys get paid to made basketball deals. If the trade for Wallace was up there then I think BryCo would’ve made it, but I dont think us “bloggers” get to see all the cards that GM’s are holding.
The only way Raptor fans can truly be happy is with results. IF Oneil ends up putting allstar like numbers up this year like BryCo thinks he will, then the trade will be the best in Raps history. if it turns out to be an injury filled/expensive season then the 90% of negative bloggers can say “I told you so to BryCo”, but these will be the same bloggers who write about how much better the Raps are with Oneil, when he does well.
The raps will sign Pietrus because they can almost guarantee him a starting job to lose, they’ll sign some big man that will ride the pines and they’ll bring Roko to TO. I actually dont mind Bargs at the 3. He may struggle defensivly but he’s still young and has a lot of growing up to do
July 1st, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Stiky Pete Can you see Andrea guarding these 3’s in the East
Lebron, Pierce, Prince, J Smith, AI, Butler, Jefferson,
I did not think so but some of your other points were good. I hate to be the voice of reason but Wallace has had many injuries beofre as well can’t shoot from outside and is a 0 time allstar, and can not guard any of the above 3’s but Pietrus can I would rather have Oneal an Pietrus then Rasho and Wallace. I like Wallace but not a good fit here. Oneal is perfect here. He is not done yet he has two good playoff runs in him for sure then 22 million in cap space. Sure we can
GO Raps
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:26 am
HASSAN ADAMS!!! HOT SAUCE IS A RAPTOR. HE MAY SURPRISE PEOPLE. HE CAN D UP. HE HAS MAD HOPS. I THINK HE WILL BE A FAN FAVORITE.
BUSY CANADA DAY.
JOSE, UKIC AND HOT SAUCE BRINGING THE ROSTER UPTO 12.
THIS PROBALY MEANS DELFINO IS OUT WHICH MEANS WE NEED A 3RD POINT GUARD OR SECOND FOR THAT MATTER. THE OTHER WHOLE BEING SMALL FORWARD.
BC PLEASE TELL ME YOUR NOT DONE.
ARTEST, MAGETTE OR PIETRUS JUST ONE MORE BC
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:28 am
i don’t like bargnani at 3 at all…BUT, with O’Neal and Bosh in the paint behind him, it isn’t as bad as the playoffs.
hassan adams…lol…don’t get too excited about the 12th guy off the bench, but at least it wasn’t someone like smush parker.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:12 am
Who the hells CDR, i keep hearing CDR… can someone please tell me what his actual name is..