With the july 1st free agent period, the draft, trades, speculations and rumours, I asked a few bloggers and fans to pretend that they were Colangelo for a day, and make roster changes as they saw fit Here is what the online world (our little part of it anyways) has come up with:
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Name: Raps Fan
URL: raptorstalk.com
Trades:
The Raptors send TJ Ford and Anthony Parker to the Knicks for Jamal Crawford, Renaldo Balkman and Wilson Chandler. The Raptors get a scoring 2-guard who can take some offensive burden off of Bosh, while spreading the floor, and a couple young energy guys to come off the bench, who hae a year left on their contracts. The Knicks get their starting point guard, and a replacement for Crawford who is a veteran player that Dantoni can lean on (also doesn’t hurt that his $4.35mil salary comes off the books at the end of the year). The luxury here is that they can go after Augustin in the draft, and use him as TJ’s understudy while he develops without the pressure of starting in New York. Trade Machine
The Raptors send Rasho Nesterovic and Jorge Garbajosa to the Utah Jazz for Andre Kirilenko. The Raptors get their starting SF who plays solid defense, grabs rebounds and can score. The Jazz get a backup center in Rasho, and Jorge who would share minutes at 3 with Harpring. Both these guys come off the cap, and the Jazz save $26mill by getting out from Kirilenko’s contract (and have to start paying Williams his massive contract). As well, they have some cap space to re-up on Brewers and Milsap. Trade Machine
FA Signings:
I wouldn’t go after anyone the market, but turn my attention to the Raptors own pending free agents of Calderon and Delfino. I would lock Calderon into a 5yr/$42.5mill contract, the reasons are pretty clear. He needs to be resigned (or signed and traded for talent, but I didn’t go there). For Delfino I would offer a 3yr/$10mill deal. Keeping him for anything more would be pretty rough, as he is far to inconsistent for bigger money.
Draft:
Getting a 2/3 who can come in and produce at 17 is a bit of a reach. There are a few nice players I like here, but the prospect of Roy Hibbert or Robin Lopez are too much for me to look past. These are young big men who bang in the post and could conceivably step in and produce on the boards and low blocks. If they are available, I would snap them up, in that order (Hibbert then Lopez). I prefer Hibbert because of Georgetown’s history with producing nice front court players.
Comments:
The 17 pick, IMHO, wont land us the 2/3 to step in and produce at a level we need. We need to use it to get a young big guy to line up with Bosh and Bargnani (and Kirilenko). I am a huge fan of college seniors coming to the NBA, and Hibbert fits that bill nicely.
The Raptors will be unable to land anyone, other then role players, on the free agent market. We have more then enough role players, we need players who can come in and do a job really well. Both Crawford (scoring) and Kirlenko (rebounding, defense, and scoring) can come in and do just that. These moves will cost the Raptors next seasons cap flexibility, but let’s be honest, a lot of other teams will have that same flexibility, and the Raptors will have a hard time competing with American destinations for NBA talent (they can land Euro players no prob).
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Name: Phdsteve
URL: raptorstalk.com
So what would I do to overhaul this roster? Great question! If I was GM for a day (and assuming I could get the other GM’s to play along and trade me who I wanted), here is what I would do:
Trades:
Im not shying away from my earlier comments about Jermaine Oneal. I really think he could be the type of piece to push this team back into contention in the east.
Here is my proposal:
To the Raps: (approx 23 mil)
J. O’Neal
S. Williams
To the Pacers: (approx 23 mil) + a draft choice
T. Ford, A. Parker, J. Graham, Rasho, and a #1 pick in 2009.
For Indy, the JO trade would free up a good bulk of the salary space for the summer of 09 and give them a good young core to build around: TJ Ford, Diogu, Dunleavey, Granger, a top 10 pick in 08 and 22 picks in 09. Also, Indy gets to now own both the Graham twins, and unload the contract of Williams who has talent, but with his legal issues and lack of production hasn’t worked out in Indy.
For Toronto, they get the player they need without having to give up either or Bargnani or Garbo, which are apparently untouchable to BC.
FA Signings:
Resigning Calderon is the top priority and it will probably cost close to 8 million (after all, thats what TJ is making).
Jose is the only player I would resign.
After that, I would spend all of my midlevel on 2 players:
With the mid level (5.5 mil):
- 1.5mil to Juan Carlos Navarro - since he only made 500,000 last year and was very unhappy in Memphis (especially after the Gasol trade) you have to think he’d be happy to get 3 years at 1.5 mil / year to come to Euro friendly Toronto, where his buddies Garbo and Jose are playing.
- And approx. 4 mil to Chris duhon, who appears to be the odd man out in Chicago (with all of the bulls money oging to trying to keep both Deng and Gordon and the #1 overall pick this srping). Duhon has a high basketball IQ (hes a Duke grad) and could nicely back up Calderon.
Draft:
Its no secret that I like CDR from Memphis in the draft with the #17 pick. If I didnt trade the pick, then that is where I would devote some resources (and the approx 1 million in cap that gets alloted to the #17 pick)
Comments:
under the proposed scenarios, this then is what the 2008 opening day roster would look like:
starter / back up
C- J. Oneal/Bargnani/ Baston
PF- Bosh/ Humphries
SF- Kapono/Garbajosa/J. Moon
2 Guard-Juan Carlos Navarro/CDR/ Williams
PG- Calderon/ Duhon
This would put the raps at approx 71 million, which is over the cap but just barely under where the luxury tax threshold appears to be for 08-09.
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Name: Masterjuddi
URL: raptorstalk.com
Trades:
Raptors trade F Kris Humphries to Portland for Channing Frye. With the debut of Greg Oden in Portland this season, Channing Frye will fall further in the depth chart and should become available for the right price. The former 8th overall pick averaged 10.9 ppg and 5.7 rpg in his first 2 seasons with the Knicks before seeing his minutes cut down in Portland.
I try to trade TJ Ford and acquire an expiring contract and some draft picks, but I couldn’t find a taker using the ESPN Trade Machine. The only problem I have with TJ is his inability to assume the role of a back up point guard. I truly feel that Jose is the PG of the future and that is why I’ve signed him to long term deal. He would be a great role model for Roko Ukic.
FA Signings:
Raptors sign restricted free agent PG Jose Calderon to a 5 year/30 million dollar deal and name him the starting point guard for the upcoming season.
Raptors do not match offer sheet for Restricted free agent Carlos Delfino and are rewarded undisclosed draft picks as compensation.
Raptors sign 2nd Round draft pick Roko Ukic to an entry level contract. Ukic is ready to come to the NBA. The Raptors drafted the young Croatian 45th overall in 2005 and have high hopes for him. He’s a 6″5 point guard with about average ball handling skills and scoring touch.
Draft:
It was hard do decide who I should draft in the first round, but after doing some research on France’s Nicolas Batum he seemed to be the right choice and a steal at 17. He draws comparisons to Rudy Gay and at 6″8 can play shooting guard or small forward.
Comments:
The Pistons fired Head Coach Flip Saunders as I was finishing up my column. Flip is a great coach and a proven winner in the NBA. He should implement a better offence and preach team defense for the Raptors. Raptors fire Head Coach Sam Mitchell and sign Flip Saunders to a 5 year contract.
2008 Starting 5:
Jose Calderon
Anthony Parker
Jamario Moon
Chris Bosh
Channing Frye
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Name: Scott
URL: altraps.com
Trades:
DREAM: Carlos Delfino & Jose Calderon to LAC for Corey Maggette & Brevin Knight
We re-sign Jose for 3-4 years, get Carlos on paper for 2. Clippers have stability in their back court with Jose and a returning Livingston. We get a serviceable backup PG and a movable piece in Maggette if he doesn’t fit in, both also in their final year.
REALISTIC: Jose Calderon, Carlos Defino for Joel Przybilla, Jarret Jack, James Jones
14mil off the books next year, a half decent center for when we lose Rasho, a dependable backup to TJ that helps at the FT line, and a BryCo piece as the cherry.
FA Signings:
Sadly, none.
Draft:
JaVale McGee. if not available, then Nicolas Batum or Roy Hibbert
Comments:
Personally, I wouldn’t even be thinking about trades or FAs until after the draft. I think this season will be a chess match leading up to next offseason, so every deadline will be met with looking ahead. If we take Hibbert, and can bring in another big like Przybilla, the teachings of Rasho and Joel will help Roy immensely. If we get a McGee or a Batum, keeping AP here will pay dividends and having him as a tutor to them. I also think Bosh would be a great mentor for McGee. While taking it at facevalue, the Portland trade above looks like no return, if we factor in moving Rasho (or letting his deal expire) and the relief of Jack and Jones if we don’t re-sign them, we become a major player next summer.
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Name: Blake Murphy
URL: theondeckcircle.net
Trades:
Unfortunately, the big trade I’ve wanted for a long time has a big snag – Corey Maggette has a player option for this year at slightly less than his actual value, at $8.4M. However, one can assume he would exercise the option this offseason since very few teams have the cap space to sign him to a bigger deal, and because he could use his Bird Rights with the Clippers to work out a sign-and-trade extension. This deal, then, assumes Maggette receives a 3-year, $33M extension (note that this ups his trade cap hit from $8.4M to roughly $9.5M). While this may seem expensive, it is about market value for a player with his track record, and is something the Raps can afford given the rest of this deal.
The trade is: T.J. Ford, Rasho Nesterovic, Joey Graham, and a 2008 2nd round pick for Corey Maggette, Tim Thomas, and Brevin Knight.
For the Clippers, they get an up-tempo young point guard with considerable upside to replace or insure against Shaun Livingston. Ford would fit well in a pick-and-roll offense that includes Brand and Kaman, and he’d be given more freedom to score, a skill he can’t fully utilize in Toronto’s offense. The Clippers also take a flier on Graham as a back-up wingman, something they need, and they acquire Rasho’s contract either as a trading piece or for sizable cap space the following offseason.
For the Raptors, they have to swallow the last two years on Thomas’ bad contract, the only bad part of this deal. Knight could fill the role of third point guard, a cheap option as insurance to Ukic. Finally, Maggette gives the Raptors a good deal of what they have lacked the past few seasons – scoring, shooting, and a strong get-to-the-rim mentality. Maggette is heavily underrated because of injury trouble early in his career and another injury three seasons ago, but he’s played 145 games the past two years. Additionally, he fits in well with a 38.4% 2-point shooting clip last season and has scored at least 16 points per game in each of the past six seasons, including three years of over 20 a night. Most importantly, Maggette has got to the line an average of 7 times per night for his entire career, a rate that increased to 10 trips per contest this past season. For a team that has trouble getting to the rim and the line, Maggette is a perfect fit who also doesn’t give up much on the defensive side of the ball. This ignores, too, that he’s a good rebounder for his position and cashes over 80% of those trips to the line.
FA Signings:
Jose Calderon is brought back. Absolutely. Does a 5-year, $44M deal sound reasonable to you? Yup, me too.
You can’t really call it a signing, but bringing Roko Ukic over from Croatia is a must-do. He’s at the point now where he has an NBA-ready body and offensive game and more time in Europe is probably only of marginal benefit. Ukic is 6’5” and has a great scoring touch, making him a valuable back-up point guard for 12-15 minutes a game, allowing Jose to get more serious run. He should come over for something to the tune of 3-years, $5M, likely with a mutual option at a higher price tag for a year or two after that.
Otherwise, the team has just the mid-level exception to use, and a lot of that will depend on if the trade above can possibly happen. Sign-and-trades for picks or cap space are largely out of the question since the team won’t go into the luxury tax zone and they’ll be on the doorstep with these moves. Thus, given a $5.5M limit to sign players but with only one orster spot to fill, a Kapono-sized player could be added to the mix. That said, if my proposed trade, the Ukic cross-over, and a Lopez draft pick all went into effect, the team has little in the way of glaring needs. Thus, I’d add some depth at the center position, but that player would be one available for the veteran minimum since the team has Maceo Baston as a stop-gap already. Kwame Brown and Jamal Magloire are possibilities.
Obviously, I’m not too sold on any affordable free agents. They’ll simply be roster filler and depth, so the team can afford to go a little on the cheap in this regard.
Draft:
With the 17th pick, if it’s not traded, I think Robin Lopez out of Stanford makes the most sense. He’s a 7-footer and has an NBA-ready body, giving the Raps the size and strength they sorely need in the middle. He’s a fantastic interior defender and shotblocker already and indications are that his downside is Anderson Varejao (and not just because of the From Justin to Kelly afro), and it’s all uphill from there. Not only is he a strong compliment to Bosh, allowing him to tally more weak-side blocks and guard the lesser skilled big, he is also an ideal energy player off the bench should the team continue to force Andrea into the starting center role.
That said, I’ve heard rumblings that Colangelo is willing to move the pick (fair enough) or try and slide up into the lottery, which makes a little less sense to me. Lopez is a great fit at an affordable price, and unless you’re moving into the top-5 there’s really not a must-have talent on the board.
Comments:
The Raptors would have a pretty formidable roster given these moves, and would somehow stay safely below the expected luxury tax line in making these improvements. The point guard duties would be handled by Calderon (a huge plus), with Ukic and Knight fighting for backup minutes. At shooting guard, Anthony Parker and Jason Kapono would split time, with Kapono getting some of Delfino’s 07-08 minutes after his strong playoff performance. Delfino is allowed to walk, by the way. At small forward, Moon would be relegated to the more-appropriate role of energy player, backing up Maggette (Tim Thomas would stay on the bench, please). Bosh would be the power forward with Humphries and a returning Garbojsa vying for back-up minutes. Finally, Andrea Bargnani would see time at the three, four, and five while Robin Lopez shuts down the lane at the 5-spot the rest of the time. The rest of the bench would consist of Maceo Baston and Kwame Brown/Jamal Magloire fighting for Inactive List immunity. Take a closer look:
PG – Calderon, Ukic, Knight
SG – Parker, Kapono
SF – Maggette, Moon, Thomas
PF – Bosh, Garbajosa, Humphries
C – Lopez, Baston, Brown/Magloire
Andrea Bargnani – wherever they plan to put him now, but probably at SF/PF/C.
Given this roster, the Raptors would have roughly $66.2M committed in salary, a figure that is well over the expected cap threshold but safely below the anticipated luxury tax line of $70M.
Tell me that’s not a team that can do damage in the East.
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Name: MoonMan
URL: jamariomoonshine.com
Trades:
TJ Ford and Rasho for Michael Redd from the Bucks (yes I know in reality Milwaukee probably doesn’t want Ford back, but hey the trade was accepted on ESPN Trade Machine), Trade Graham to seattle for Cash
FA Signings:
Jose Calderon
Draft:
Any top rated PG available from a well coached school.
Comments:
By obtaining Redd, the raps add a definite scoring threat and option to help out Bosh. Bargnani would have to step up, and play the centre position. Colangelo has already stated that Bargnani will be attending numerous Big Man Camps this summer. It’s to early to write Bargnani off, and needs another season to show if he was just suffering the sophomore slump. Moon can then continue to block shots and rebound, and not feel like the team is dependant on his offense.
You would have a starting lineup of Calderon, Redd, Moon, Bosh, Bargnani with Parker, Delfino, Kapono, Garbo and whoever the raps draft for a pg on the bench
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Name: jjdynomite (Judah J. Gould)
Trade:
Outgoing
T.J. Ford ($8,275,000) — BYC, not sure how this translates in a trade
Jorge Garbajosa ($4,250,000)
Anthony Parker ($4,550,000)
Incoming
Mike Dunleavy ($9,000,000)
Jeff Foster ($5,500,000)
Ike Diogu ($2,912,820)
FA Signings:
Magette ($7,000,000)
sign-and-trade with
Rasho ($8,400,000)
Draft:
#17th overall DJ Augustin (PG, Texas)
Comments:
- Indy is rebuilding, they clear caproom at the end of 2008-2009, J.O. will have only 1 year left and can be dealt next off-season. Dunleavy will give the Raptors a high-percentage scoring 2/3, Jeff Foster interior toughness and rebounding, Diogu a young project to make the $$$ work.
- Clips need cash to re-up Brand and their owner is cheap so wouldn’t mind getting rid of Maggette and getting more cap space (after Rasho leaves at the end of 2009), and Magette’s departure makes room for Thornton to start; Maggette gives the Raptors a scoring and rebounding 2/3.
- Augustin may be a Jameer Nelson-type (ergo, streaky, dubious starter in the NBA, due to lack-of-height), but can be a stud back-up PG to Jose, which is needed with TJ traded to Indy.
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Name: khandor
URL: khandorssportsblog.wordpress.com
Trades:
Send TJ Ford + Joey Graham to Philadelphia for Rodney Carney
FA Signings:
Sign either Royal Ivey or Anthony Johnson (as a complimentary PG to go with Jose Calderon)
Draft:
#17 JaVale McGee or Chase Budinger or Brandon Rush and then TRADE DOWN to the 2nd Rd to exchange this player with whichever team selects Joey Dorsey (obtaining Dorsey + an additional player from that team, in the process)
Comments:
- The Raptors MUST trade Ford but essentially stay the course with their other players, except for a non-rotation player like Joey Graham. Rodney Carney is an exceptional athlete at the Wing position and a solid rebounder/defender (the 76ers will not want to part with him but might be willing to take a chance on a talent like TJ Ford, as a compliment to Andre Miller).
- As a complimentary player to Jose Calderon, either Royal Ivey (solid defender) or Anthony Johnson (combo Guard) is a capable PG with good size and adequate ball-handling ability. Any of (a) JaVale McGee or (b) Chase Budinger or (c) Brandon Rush is a quality selection with the #17 Overall Pick in the 2008 Draft. However, the real prize in this year’s draft would be trading down to the 2nd Round and picking up a robust player like Joey Dorsey + plus a 2nd player of that team’s existing roster, in exchange for whoever it is the Raptors select in the #17 position. Joey Dorsey is the type of ready-made NBA Power Forward (PF/4) Toronto needs to add to its everyday line-up as a super athletic/rebounder/shot-blocker/intimidator/inside presence/etc. beside Chris Bosh (C).
+0
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:14 pm
just a quick update. Espn insider Chad Ford in his latest mock draft suggested that Indiana at the #11 pick might not pick a point guard but instead try to move Jermaine ONeal for an experienced point guard- and he named TJ Ford as a possibility.
remember, you heard it here first.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Great stuff and a great idea, RapsFan.
I still think this is the first time in years (if not in the history of the franchise) where nothing can truly be looked at until after the draft. I say this assuming Jose tests the FA market. If he does, you don’t really know his worth until after July 1, which is the same day that TJ’s BYC goes away.
Throw the statements made by BC into this mix and save for a trade done with neither of our PGs involved and us receiving expiring contracts in return, nothing gets done.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:51 pm
i totally agree alt, but it makes me nervous to have jose test the free agent waters. i bet he signs a long term contract with the ‘promise’ of starting before july 1st. not sure the raptors can afford for him to blink first.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:57 pm
the raps have to lock Jose up before other teams can offer his a contract. Give him good money and promise him he’ll be named the starter. the quicker they move TJ the better. I could see the Pacers wanting Ford and after injury filled seasons, Oneal could use a change of scenery.
It is so hard to say what the best pick would be at 17. depending on who’s still available obviously, but the raps need rebounding, which a Hibbert or Lopez would hopefully give them, but also there is a lot of potential in players like Batum, McGee, Budinger, or Rush
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:04 pm
way too much is being made of the 17th pick in my estimation. hibbert and lopez can come in and contribute, but they aren’t saviors by any stretch. sure you can get a josh smith, but that happens once in a while, not a regular thing. trades are going to be the only way to improve this team.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:31 pm
With all the talk out of Detroit that “there will be changes”- heres my question:
would you make this trade:
AP and Il Mago to the Pistons for Rip Hamilton.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=294~2987~635&teams=28~8~8&te=&cash=
For the Raps, it would solve 4 of their biggest issues (a slasher, a secondary scorer, a 2 guard, playoff experience)and still leave Rasho, TJ, and the #17 pick around to make a push for J Oneal.
AND The Raps and Pistons have a history of making deals.
For the Pistons, they get out from under a big contract, get a little bit of change in bodies, and get a serviceable player in AP (who has good fundamentals and would fit nicely in detroit) and a “potential” great player in Bargnani who could play the 4 in detroit with sheed at the 5?
Afterall, here is a direct quote from Joe Dumars’ press conference today:
“I have no interest in completely ripping the team down. Will I look to making significant changes? Yeah, you’re damn right I will.”
thoughts?
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:47 pm
if i’m colangelo, i make that deal in a heartbeat, but i would be surprised if dumars made that trade. il mago doesn’t quite fit the bill of the kind of player dumars has historically grabbed. even darko was somewhat of a banger (somewhat).
that trade would definitely leave the raptors in a very good situation, O’Neal’s contract still makes me nervous though.
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:34 pm
BC would be stupid not to make that trade and Dumars would be stupid to make the trade. Bargs still has a chance to be a great player in this league, but acquiring a player like Rip would kick ass. he’s a top 5 scorer in the nba and does it so many ways.
I like O’Neal, but he is injury prone with a huge contract. the raps front court would be upgraded and they’d have an expiring contract for 19 million.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:13 pm
As a rule, I try not to speculate on unrealistic deals that make me feel good about the Raps but would no chance of actually happening (ie/ Corey Magette for Joey Graham and Garbo).
For the Pistons I think its a pretty fair deal. Im not sure how else they shake things up? All the internet chat is around them getting rid of Sheed, but at 12 mil/year how many teams want to take him and his moods on? I know there is no way they would Prince, and it seems unrealistic that they would deal Billups and turn the reins over to Stuckey as the #1 guard- since he is much more effective as a slashing 2 (and this is precisely the reason why Rip becomes expendable). He is by far their most move-able and re-moveable part and would bring them back some nice pieces…but thats all they’ll get for him is pieces. No one would trade an all star player for Rip. He’s good, but the question I would ask as a GM trading for him would be, how much of his success (and all star appearences) are due to being on 6 teams that won 50+ games. Dont get me wrong, Im not knocking him, in fact I love him as a player and think he’d be awesome in Toronto- my question is how much more can Dumars get than AP and Bargs on the open market? and How else does Dumars “shake it up?”
If you take Rip off this team and replace him with Stuckey and AP at the 2, and add Bargnani to the Pistons front court with Sheed, McDyess, Maxiel, and Johnson, I think this team wins 50 games again next season- and they get younger- and they cap relief if it doesnt work out.
I’d also be willing to swap 1st round picks (17 for 29) with Detroit if that made the deal more fair.
but seriously, why wouldnt Detroit do it?
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:33 pm
phdsteve,
I agree completely … unrealistic trade proposals from the perspective of the Raptors potential trading partner are a waste of time and energy.
NO WAY Joe D. is interested in Bargnani or Parker.
Joe D. is smarter than that.
Parker is a career back-up and Bargnani DOES NOT rebound his position.
Please recall that Joe D. is the guy who pawned off Carlos Delfino on the Raptors.
Secondly, Rip & Chauncey together … is what makes this Piston team function at a high level, in the first place.
How is Joe D. going to tweak his team?
After getting rid of Flip Saunders … who has been the biggest problem Detroit’s had for the last 3 years … Joe D. doesn’t have to do anything else right now, except (A) find himself a new head coach that is well-respected by the Pistons veterans, (B) allow this coach to rein in Rasheed, and (C) allow their young players like Stuckey, Maxiell, Hayes, Aaron Afflalo (who was wasted by Flip in the playoffs) & Amir Johnson (who was wasted by Flip as well) on their roster to continue to mature.
If Chauncey doesn’t get hurt, Flip is not the Pistons coach and their athletic kids get a chance to play, this year’s Pistons are every bit as good as the Celtics.
khandors last blog post..You can’t win without the ball
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Great idea and it should keep everyone busy for a few weeks. Anyone tracking BC’s IP address?
cuzzys last blog post..Photoshopping the NBA Finals
June 4th, 2008 at 9:34 am
lol @ cuzzy
khandor, if joey dorsey is as good as you say, why wouldn’t the raptors, or anyone else, take him in the first round? is he the kind of player who could be great, but people don’t really know what they have?
as for the pistons….i think their time has passed. if the rumors are right, i can’t see michael curry or terry porter getting them anywhere that flip couldn’t. as for them being as good as the celtics, i have to agree. during the celtics series, they seemed to be not very well prepared. players take some heat, but coaches have to share in it as well. i bet a team on the verge would bite on him to push them over the top, and fight the lakers in the west…just putting it out there. free afflalo!
June 4th, 2008 at 10:24 am
If Colangelo trades Bargs in the next year, I will kiss Raps Fan’s feet.
Not gonna happen.
AltRapss last blog post..Linkage - June 3
June 4th, 2008 at 10:29 am
couldnt agree with you more Khandor, love your insight into detroit and their players and issues. the thing thats got me thinking about this trade is Joe D’s comments that he is going to shake it up.
Firing Flip wasnt shaking it up- it was doing what everyone saw as the most logical step- the big question is where do the pistons go from here? I dont think they are going to blow this thing up, but I do think they will try to tinker by dealing one of their starting 5.
I also agree that AP is nothing more than a good NBA backup., but where I disagree is with the idea that Bargnani doesnt have any real trade value. Now as you probably know from many of my other posts, Im not a very big fan of Il Mago in Toronto, but from what Ive read around the league, hes still seen as a top flight talent, who many GMs salivate over getting their hands on.
Ive read on more than one occasion, from very reputable sources, that far better talent than Rip could have been attained by the Raps had they been willing to include Andrea.
I think Andrea and AP is enough to get it done, and I think Id make this deal if I was Joe D. I think Andrea would do really well playing the 4 in the NBA, especially when paired up with a guy like Sheed. One thing is for sure, Sheed would get in his face and make sure he never took a play off.
June 4th, 2008 at 10:42 am
joey Doresey is a going to be a good NBA player but he will never be a star. He doesnt have the upside of many of the other big men in the draft. Think of him more like a Dalembert or Magloire when they were coming out of University.
His stock will definitely rise, since big men always go higher than projected come draft day, but teams picking in the lottery are always (unless they are rob babcock) going to pick the best available talent- with the most upside- not the most NBA ready player. So, a team like Minn, Memp, or Sea, picking very high in the draft are going to swing for a homerun if they draft a big- and go for a guy with enormous potential- versus someone who can come in and be a steady everyday player. No matter how NBA ready, those guys usually go in the 20s or early in the second round.
Plus, if I was a team drafting for a “big” in the lottery and wanted an NBA ready player (and assuming I couldnt get Beasley) Id put my money on Kevin Love. I saw him play a couple times this spring when I was at UCLA- and the kids is awesome. His b-ball IQ is so high, he passes so well out from the post, has a great back to the basket game, can shoot the mid range really well, can score on or over anyone (even when defended by 7 footers with huge wingspans or smaller players with excellent footspeed) and is a solid (not excellent) defender. His big knock has been his weight and athleticism- but I’ll tell you this- if his weight is down (which it is) and he continues to work out for teams and show his stuff like he did in orlando- I wouldnt be shocked to see him slip into the top 5 (to a team like memphis). I think his game is a lot like Chris Webers. No joke- this guy has talent and is NBA ready.
After that, I think guys like johnson and speights and other bigs who are seen as raw but having big time potential get a lot more hype and tend to get drafted higher. Think back to the Bosh draft- why did Detroit take Darko? Why did the Raps take Bosh? In both cases the most NBA ready big man in the draft was actually Chris Kaman. now I know we are talking about top5 picks here and not later in the first round, but the point is still the same.
I like that dorsey is calling out all of the lottery pick big men and asking to workout against them for the big teams. I like that kind of panache. I also like that he is dedicated to making a statement. I think he will. The fact that he comes from a great program and can really get up and down the floor are also big pluses. I think this is why you could see him rise as high as the pheonix pick at 15 (acquired from atlanta in the joe johnson trade)but I think its more likely that if he rises into the first round of the draft you’ll see him end up in NJ when they pick with the Mavericks pick in the early 20s.
June 4th, 2008 at 11:08 am
OK, Raps Fan: Why would the Jazz give up Kirilenko for Rasho and Garbo? I see what you’re saying about them coming off the cap but even then they’ll actually want some talent in return and there’s plenty of teams looking for a defensive player who can block shots.
I can see the Knicks taking TJ Ford but I don’t see Colangelo taking on Jamal Crawford. Balkman sounds like a nice garbage-man but give Hump some minutes and he’ll do the same for you or take Lopez/Dorsey in the draft. Crawford’s a good scorer but he doesn’t fit the BC mold of player as khandor would agree.
As you know I was lazy enough to come up with my “plan” for the Raptors’ summer but I’ll say this (which I said in my post today too). I like Josh Childress and Shane Battier. These are second-tier players that play defense and can score and since our wing scoring sucks, they can help us out big time.
In the draft I’d take Brandon Rush because he’s got an NBA body, is athletic and is a scorer by nature. I’d even take him over CDR because I feel his ceiling is higher, CDR’s no doubt a better defensive player but we need to replace AP with a young scoring SG, not a 3 forced to play a 2.
We need to clear some dead-weight on our team: Maceo Baston and Joey Graham need to be shipped out and we should not bring back Carlos Delfino (Childress and Battier are much better).
phdsteve - no thanks to JO for the obvious injury/bad attitude reasons. We need to up our scoring from the 2/3 spot, not our 4. Plus, they already have Tinsley who’s not exactly a bad starting PG.
I think I like masterjuddi’s modest trade proposal the best: acquire Channing Frye for Hump. Replace hustle with some athleticism and a better jump shot and fill the “void” left by Hump through Dorsey/Lopez.
Anyway, nice comments on this post.
Arsenalists last blog post..Day 1 of workouts + TJ Ford trade talk heats up
June 4th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
i was thinking that the 17th pick wouldn’t be much help for next year, but i was also thinking jamario moon would double as the ball/towel boy during time outs when he was signed, so i am going to try to stay positive about our saviour to be at 17.
alt: i agree, that’s why i didn’t even entertain the notion of trading him in my mock moves here. seems like last summers mistake of attaching too much expectation to mago is repeating itself.
arse: the proposed kirilenko trade would be strictly a salary move. the talent going back to utah isn’t equivalant, but they get serviceable players who come off the books at the end of the season. check out their salary situation: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/utah.htm
lots of money being spent on a team that couldn’t beat a bynum-less squad, maybe they make a run at one of the better free agents next summer with the extra cap space. i’m not going to argue that they couldn’t find better talent by dangling kirilenko though, but you have to figure that kwame brown landed the lakers pau gasol, this isn’t that much more of a stretch.
June 4th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Id love to see Battier here but there is no way Houston trades him. He is one of the most under appreciated players in the league (according to fans) but most appreciated players (according to coaches, players, and GM).
I like Childress too but hes a restricted FA, and from everything I hear Atlanta plans on matching every offer. But he’d be nice too.
Im sticking with my JO comments- seriously, it doesnt mattter where he ends up, people will be surprised how good he is and how good he can be in the right scenario- just look back 6 months to 2 years to all the postings about why no one would want Pau Gasol.
As for drafting Rush, he’d be good too! I really like him, but his brother was such a bust when the raps picked him up on draft day about 8 years ago.
June 4th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
steve, i don’t remember reading about how no one would want gasol. the bulls were willing to trade half their players for him.
kareem rush was a 21st pick…not sure pinning big expectations on someone at that spot is fair.
June 4th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
I dont have time today but later this week I’ll link it up to some articles where he’s described as : soft, injury prone, inexperienced, a career loser, etc.
fyi- espn’s Chad Ford has just posted some insider info about teams looking to trade their draft picks. Of all the potential teams Ford lists, almost all of them are top 12 and looking for a point guard- and almost all of them are listed as suiters for TJ Ford.
very interesting…maybe BC is really thinking about trading up. I know he’s spoke about it before, but I never took it to be truth. Im still not sure who they would draft int eh top 10 that would really make this team better?
thoughts?
June 4th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
i have to say, if the ford is the focal piece of a trade to land a top 10 pick, that guy who is drafted has to come in and contribute from day 1 in my estimation. after being burned by bargnani, i can’t see colangelo drafting on potential anymore. i think the raptors need a guy who has been playing at a high level in the league for a few years.
June 4th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
i totally forgot about mickael pietrus! i would throw the mid-level at him over 5 years, and see if he flinches.
June 4th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
I could see BC moving up in the draft in a trade involving TJ. TJ has to be moved and I agree with Raps fan that a nba ready player must come in return. the draft is full of quality players, but if there are teams out there willing to give up current NBA talent that would be the best case scenario.
I say the raps draft one of these guys Batum, Hibbert or Lopez. try to land a scorer and/or rebound in some sort of package deal that includes TJ as the main piece.
June 5th, 2008 at 8:42 am
fyi- Joey dorsey measured a a little too small to end up in toronto:
according to Chad Ford at ESPN.com
“Joey Dorsey may be just 6-foot-7 in shoes, but his long wingspan of 7- foot-1¾ and his solid standing reach of 8-foot-11 should give him the ability to play power forward in the pro”
seems to be a 3-4 tweener and the raps already have no room at the 4 and a handful of guys from Garbo to Bargs who fit this bill of no real position.
—
as for the Pistons trade rumours, they are only getting stronger:
the Detroit Free Press writes:
Joe Dumars is in charge. And Joe Dumars is not happy. “I was disgusted,” he said of the performance by his Pistons in Games 3 and 6 of the Eastern Conference finals. That was clear Tuesday, when Dumars broomed Flip Saunders out as coach. And the exit door awaits at least one of his starters. “I’ll make a significant trade,” Dumars, the Pistons’ president of basketball operations, declared. “… We have a core group of guys here that for the first time in six years I’m letting teams in the league know I’ll do a deal. … I’m open for business.”
and ESPN.com also says:
With the Pistons firing coach Flip Saunders and GM Joe Dumars promising further changes, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them find a way to move up in the draft.
One of Dumars’ biggest concerns about Saunders (as well as previous coaches Larry Brown and Rick Carlisle) was his unwillingness to develop the younger players on the roster. You can bet that incoming coach Michael Curry will get a stern mandate from Dumars.
The team is very high on Rodney Stuckey and Amir Johnson but still needs another young player or two for the pipeline.
As far as tradable assets go, the Pistons are in great shape. Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess are heading into the last year of their contracts. Richard Hamilton and Chauncey Billups would have great value, especially to teams trying to get over the hump in the playoffs. Tayshaun Prince, the youngest of the core veterans, is someone who would interest almost any team.
In other words, if Dumars wants to remake the roster, it won’t be that difficult.
—-
and real quick on the Pau Gasol front, take a look at this:
CBS Sports:
http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/10837676
Marc Stein of espn.com at the deadline last year:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-070221
Marty Burns of SI.com (be sure to read the fan comments):
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_blogs/nba/2007/01/bulls-should-pass-on-pau.html
some more fan commentary
http://blogs.suntimes.com/fullcourtpress/2007/02/who_would_you_give_up_for_pau.html
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/story/2006/12/28/161652/63
http://www.basketballforum.com/nba-forum/403401-pau-gasol-trade-revisited-you-might-surprised.html
http://www.realcavsfans.com/showthread.php?t=6598
and even Stephen A smith’s analysis of the trade and why its successful has nothing to do with PAu, but only with Kwame.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j9nsqv9m6M&feature=related
Even in memphis they thought Gasol was overrated:
http://www.thememphisedge.com/2008/02/02/gasol-speaks-more-trade-fallout/
and Fan responses to the Gasol trade printed in the Memphis Commercial appeal included:
“Gasol, while a remarkable player, is too soft and uninspiring to be the player a team is built around. We need the room to build for the future. If you kept him, we might win 10 or 11 more games … as it is now, we will probably win 10 or 11 more games. People in Memphis don’t like Gasol. He’s temperamental, whines, and is easily hurt. He makes over 140,000 a game. People in the south, who work two shifts and are trying to buy a new TV to watch the games at home, don’t want to hear how he can’t get motivated for a game. Miller is soft and inconsistent, but he has a small trace of leadership. It is way overdue to get rid of Gasol. While we are not getting much in return, we at least stopped the bleeding.”
so, sure its easy to say in retrospect how great Gasol has always been, but at the time of the deal- the reason it was said to be a rip off wasnt because everyone thought Gasol was awesome but instead because Kwame sucked. And lastly, if chicago thought Gasol was that great, then he’d be wearing a bulls uni right now.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
I think Joey Dorsey makes sense as a second round pick but I’m not sold on him as a first round pick.
If you’re going to be a one-dimensional defensive player you have to be great. Not good or very good, you have to be great. I’m not sure Dorsey is that. I thought he struggled too often against NBA caliber bigs in the college game and that was despite being 25 years old with a physically mature body.
Then comes the evolution of the NBA with the zone defense. It puts far more pressure on teams to have guys who can hit an open shot. Dorsey can’t. Even before the zone lots of top tier undersized bigs were great passers (Ben Walalce and Rodman). Once again Dorsey is not.
Then add his overly emotional and tempermental approach to the game. His age. Add in the fact players drafted to be solely defensive players have a habit of taking extra time to develop (not like Bowen or Wallace were playing much their first few years out of college).
There’s some skills there defensively and on the boards but my goodness he has a long way to go.
Daves last blog post..NBA Finals Thoughts: Interesting Stats
June 9th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Bargnani’s trade value is anyone’s guess …. so I’ll have a guess.
I reckon his lack of improvement this past season has hurt his value in a serious way. I doubt he’d be enough to land an All-Star caliber player. He could be enough to land that player if they’re coming off of injuries or is on a poor contract that’s hurting their team. But a player like Rip Hamilton in his prime, great contract, all-star, I just can’t see that happening.
I don’t like the idea of trading Bargnani. But I like the dislike the true statement that both he and Bosh play same position even more, it’s possibly/probably something that has to be done at some point.
Daves last blog post..NBA Finals Thoughts: Interesting Stats
June 10th, 2008 at 10:12 am
how much longer till something is done though? i figure he plays out the year, and depending on how he does, bc has to go in one direction. not sure what that means, or who is left standing, but something needs to be done (much like the forderon situation).
June 10th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
phdsteve,
It’s easy for some to to forget what the real perception of Pau Gasol was/is amongst the GM’s in the NBA.
Those like you and me, though, we don’t forget such things!
Kudos to you.
Interested in your take on the proposed
Ford + Graham in return for Carney trade
I included in my ‘recommendations’.
Once you’ve replied, please drop me an email so that I’ll know to check back in this thread or simply feel free to correspond directly with via email.
Thanks, in advance.
khandors last blog post..Junior goes yard for #600
June 10th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
As others can see from what I wrote before, neither would I choose Joey Dorsey in the #17 position.
khandors last blog post..Junior goes yard for #600